A River Runs Through It (1992)
The focus of this podcast episode is a critical examination of the film "A River Runs Through It," directed by Robert Redford and featuring Brad Pitt. We delve into the intricate dynamics between the two brothers portrayed in the film, exploring how their distinct personalities and life choices reflect broader themes of familial expectation and personal rebellion. Throughout our discussion, we express varying opinions on the film's pacing and the effectiveness of its narrative structure, particularly the use of voiceovers, which some of us find superfluous. Additionally, we share our sentiment regarding the performances of the cast, particularly noting the contrasting presence of Brad Pitt against his co-stars. Ultimately, this episode serves as an analysis of the film's storytelling and character development, alongside our personal reflections on its impact and resonance.
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Transcript
Yeah, here's the thing.
Speaker A:You take me to sushi, I'll find something to eat.
Speaker A:I'm sure they all have stuff.
Speaker B:Man, that's so.
Speaker A:I'll go fish.
Speaker B:I don't like fish.
Speaker B:That's just.
Speaker B:You're dead wrong.
Speaker B:We'll end it at that.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's a Birdie Podcast where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jury.
Speaker A:My name is JJ cr I'm here with my co host Matz and Heiner.
Speaker B:Better Red than Dead.
Speaker A:And Alec Burgess.
Speaker C:Let's get it.
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Speaker A:We're week four, week four of September.
Speaker A:I always forget there's five weeks this.
Speaker A:This time around.
Speaker A:Week four, September in Brad Pitt month, if you will.
Speaker A:And we're hitting it up with A River Runs through it.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written by Norman McLean and Richard Friedenberg, star or directed by Robert Redford.
Speaker A:RIP and then it stars Brad Pitt, Craig Schaefer, Tom Skerrett, Brenda Blethen, Emily Lloyd, Edie McClurg, Stephen Shellin, Michael Cudlitz, Susan Traylor and Rob Cox.
Speaker A: lious, who grew up in a rural: Speaker A:All devoted to fly fishing man.
Speaker A:Very different Montana movie than last time.
Speaker A:But we're here.
Speaker A:This was my movie, so I'll go ahead and pick it.
Speaker A:There was some duality to this.
Speaker A:Pick one because I knew Matson would go absolutely nuts watching this movie because of the pacing of it.
Speaker A:He's not.
Speaker A:He's not very good with character driven only movies.
Speaker A:But I also picked it because it's a sneaky.
Speaker A:It's one of those movies that like divides me quite a bit.
Speaker A:There are parts of this movie that I absolutely love and there are parts of this movie that I can't stand.
Speaker A:And I'm sure we'll talk about all of them.
Speaker A:But it is one that I every once in a while get a hankering to sit down and watch.
Speaker A:And I think, listen, Schaefer and Pitt do very well playing against each other.
Speaker A:And I love Tom's Garrett.
Speaker A:So like the Acting in this is very good, and I think it's a very interesting story.
Speaker A:I loved the book Long.
Speaker A:I read this book as a younger person before this movie actually came out.
Speaker A:So it's one of the very first adult books I ever read, if you will, as a kid.
Speaker A:So very, very good book.
Speaker A:Very more information and detail than the movie, as usually that is.
Speaker A:But it is something that translates pretty well, and I enjoy it, so that's why I picked it.
Speaker A:But there's always the added benefit to.
Speaker A:With Matson here and there.
Speaker A:I didn't think it would with Alec too much.
Speaker A:Whether or not he likes the movie, I don't know, but I don't think it would with him because he's like me.
Speaker A:He can deal with it.
Speaker B:Well, here's the thing.
Speaker B:Like, I. I want to hear what you liked and disliked about it, because this movie, I texted, you guys like it.
Speaker B:You kind of know how it's most likely going to end.
Speaker B:But you want to see the ending and you want to get it there.
Speaker B:But, yeah, at times you're just like, dude, can we just speed up life a little bit here?
Speaker B:Like, come on, we all know where this is going.
Speaker B:But the life lessons of this movie are things that I do enjoy about storytelling.
Speaker B:And I think this movie does an incredible job of setting the scene for that and should be truly commended for it.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it's just.
Speaker B:You knew it, right?
Speaker B:And he suggests it's like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:Like, this movie just felt like it was lugging along at some spots, but then other spots, I was pretty entertained.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I. I think for me, what I really like is the dichotomy of these two brothers.
Speaker A:I think it's so common that we just don't pay attention to it unless it's right in our face.
Speaker A:But most of the time with siblings, and look, there's only two.
Speaker A:I only have a little sister.
Speaker A:But we could not be more different than two siblings could be.
Speaker A:I mean, obviously we have some similarities and we have some things because that's just the way that it works.
Speaker A:But my sister and I are so very different, so I can honestly relate in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:Now, that's not to say that I have a gambling problem or I'm a drunkard, but I'm certainly rebellious in the ways of my typical family dynamic, if you will.
Speaker A:So, like, okay, I was.
Speaker A:I am a drunkard.
Speaker A:Off.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I know that's what you're laughing.
Speaker B:This could have been you back in those.
Speaker B:You love to fish, you like to drink.
Speaker B:For a long time.
Speaker B:And I mean you're not a gambling addict, but I mean, I think you would like to tables back then.
Speaker A:Yeah, I do like to gamble, but I, I don't like feeling like I'm in fear of it when I do it.
Speaker A:That's my only problem.
Speaker A:Like I would never do it in a back room of some weird ass janky lodge in the middle of nowhere, Montana.
Speaker A: Maybe in the: Speaker A:But yeah, so I really like the, the pacing around or not the pacing, but the, the story around these two kids that, and as they grow up into adults and how each one is trying to please their father in their own way.
Speaker A:And one does it through fishing and the other does it just in general in life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then like.
Speaker A:But they lean on those couple of things and I, I just really like.
Speaker A:And to your point, Matson, like when they do build the character development.
Speaker A:Strong, it's really strong.
Speaker A:And they play those dynamics very well.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of life lessons in the movie.
Speaker A:What I don't like and the first thing that drives me crazy is the goddamn voiceover from fucking Robert Redford.
Speaker A:Like I think it's so overkill.
Speaker A:And this is where I get frustrated with a lot of movies that come from books, right?
Speaker A:Because they feel like there's so much good content in the book and that's not untrue that they have to plug that shit into the movie somehow.
Speaker A:And I'm like, it's two different mediums, Knuckles.
Speaker A:And you guys know it because you take a bunch of shit out of the book and you put it into the movie or you put that isn't in the book into the movie to make it more set, make more sense visually.
Speaker A:So why do we have to read entire sections of the book as voiceover for the movie?
Speaker A:And I'll be honest, part of me it like secretly deep down, like voiceovers, especially like this one are like, you think I'm stupid and that I don't understand what's happening in this movie.
Speaker A:And so I get really frustrated by that, that.
Speaker A:And I'm like, come on, I want to listen to Robert Redford and if Robert Redford's gonna do this, do the voiceover.
Speaker A:Make him the old man in the river at the end of the goddamn movie.
Speaker A:Like, come on, I know who's talking this whole time.
Speaker A:And then I see some random ass dude that looks like the guy at the end of Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:Get the out of here.
Speaker A:Do it right.
Speaker A:If you're gonna do it.
Speaker A:So anyway, I do get frustrated by that.
Speaker A:I don't have the same.
Speaker A:This is one place where Mats and I usually agree on pacing issues of a movie.
Speaker A:This one, I don't have pacing issues because I get so caught up in the characters and what's going on.
Speaker A:And even though I.
Speaker A:You can see from a mile away how this is going to end, it just doesn't like.
Speaker A:I just enjoy it.
Speaker A:I enjoy the storytelling of it and the acting against each other.
Speaker A:So anyway, there's a very long diatribe about why I like and don't like this movie.
Speaker A:Who wants to say next?
Speaker A:Alec, have you seen this before?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker A:This is the first timer for you.
Speaker C:And I think this was my favorite movie we watched so far this month.
Speaker A:Really, really good for you, buddy.
Speaker C:I loved it.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker C:It was just a nice.
Speaker C:It made me want to go camping.
Speaker C:I haven't been camping in 20 years.
Speaker C:And like the last time that I actually did a rough camp, you know, I was in high school.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, I. I don't camp anymore.
Speaker C:I was like, I want to go camping in Montana.
Speaker A:It's beautiful.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:Not fly fishing, because fly fishing.
Speaker C:Fly fishermen.
Speaker C:I and me don't get along at all.
Speaker C:But this, like.
Speaker C:I'm pretty sure there's some sort of cult involved with fly fishing.
Speaker C:But I, I just sat down and was mesmerized the entire time.
Speaker C:I will say I. I didn't like Brad Pitt very much in the care in the role that he played.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Going through it, he felt out of place compared to everybody else.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It almost.
Speaker C:It felt like he was the oddball out where they're kind of going through it.
Speaker C:Like, hey, what about this kid?
Speaker C:Let's throw him in there.
Speaker C:He's done a couple of things up and coming.
Speaker C:Let's see what he can really do.
Speaker C:And he must have been living in Montana from 89 to 94.
Speaker C:With how many movies he's in that are based in Montana.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker C:But yeah, it was.
Speaker C:It was my favorite movie this month that we've watched so far.
Speaker C:But I was almost like I could have done without Brad Pitt.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:A little bit.
Speaker C:Where I was like, just didn't.
Speaker B:Don't make any sense.
Speaker B:Yeah, he was a little wide eyed, bushy tail in this one, like, kind of happy.
Speaker B:Go lucky.
Speaker B:Which I know is part of his character.
Speaker B:But I, I do with Alchemist when it's hard because we also had Legend of the Fall where I think Brad Pitt's character was very strong and emotional and I connected and like felt what he was portraying.
Speaker B:I never, I felt, got there with Paul's character, his brother though, Norman.
Speaker B:Like, I felt like, I mean, it was a little bit more centralized on him and Paul was in and out quite a bit in the story.
Speaker B:But I just, I don't know, like, Paul didn't land for me as much as I wanted it to.
Speaker B:And I found myself gravitating more towards Norman.
Speaker B:And I personally, I think I wanted them to show me a little bit more of why Paul was struggling because they alluded to it and showed some things.
Speaker B:But I think they.
Speaker B:I wanted more there because I think where we talk about pacing for me was the Norman stuff that at times that felt like a slog a little bit.
Speaker B:And I wanted more of the.
Speaker B:Paul was more interesting to me.
Speaker B:I just don't think I got enough of screen time to maybe connect in that way.
Speaker B:And I struggle with that a little bit.
Speaker A:It's fair, I think.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:Almost choked right there.
Speaker A:I think Craig Schaefer's like a seriously underrated actor.
Speaker A:Like, I'm sure you've seen it, Matt, but the movie, the program, like, I love him in that.
Speaker A:Like he does a night breed.
Speaker A:I always go back to these old movies because that's what he was in a lot of older movies.
Speaker A:But I really like him.
Speaker A:So yeah, I do agree that I like, I like how he plays the character, but he also doesn't carry the same weight as a Brad Pitt.
Speaker A:And I think that's one thing that distracts me during the movie is like, I see Craig Schaefer and I like, I love this guy.
Speaker A:But then Brad Pitt comes on and to Alex point, like, he's weird in the, like he's out of place in this movie.
Speaker A:What he reminds me of is the Meet Joe Black character before he dies.
Speaker A:Like, he's just like bubbly and weird, but there's some weird going on in his life.
Speaker A:And so you're like, what the hell?
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:It is a weird play for him.
Speaker A:Like, but when they're together, Brad Pitt just has that presence, right?
Speaker A:Like, even when he's playing a weird character that may not fit, like, you can't help but look at Brad Pitt and go, that's Brad Pitt.
Speaker A:And God damn, is he a good looking dude.
Speaker A:And he can act.
Speaker A:And so Craig Schaefer, I think takes a little bit of like an under, which is weird because he's the main narrator, storyteller of this story.
Speaker A:And so I think they could have maybe flip flopped the two and that might have worked, but I don't know that Craig Schaer could play that brother as well.
Speaker A:I, I don't know.
Speaker A:So it's just interesting.
Speaker A:But yeah, I, I definitely hear you.
Speaker A:I think I can see both sides of that to where it's.
Speaker A:There's some confusion between the two and, and I don't know, Brad Pitt was an odd choice for this, but I think you're right.
Speaker A:I think Pretty Face, interesting character.
Speaker A:So he was grabbing movie roles early and quick at that point.
Speaker A:And this one was before.
Speaker C:Legend of the Fall.
Speaker A:Legends of the Fall.
Speaker C:And I also, I, in this, I, I would wonder if Robert Redford was trying to channel himself.
Speaker C:Brad Pitt, because it's very similar to Sundance Kid.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:That's fair type of a look and.
Speaker C:A feel and a vibe.
Speaker C:And so wouldn't surprise me if Robert Redford was trying to live vicariously by finding someone who, you know, relatable look and feel to his acting style.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:I will say, I do love.
Speaker A:One of the things I love about this film is when the brothers are together.
Speaker A:Like, especially when they go fishing and they're like, I really like the one dude when they take the girl's brother out his dip, shows up ripped out of his gourd, gets all naked and gets his nasty ass on his back.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Makes me so happy.
Speaker A:Like, I laugh my ass off at that entire sequence.
Speaker A:And them arguing together, like they have their own language, which I really love.
Speaker A:Like, they'll have this conversation and people will be like, the.
Speaker A:Are you talking about?
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Because you can see that connection that they have from the beginning of the movie throughout.
Speaker A:And I, I really like that piece of this film and watching those two that no matter how long they've been been separated or the differences in their character, when they're by themselves, right when they come together, they form this unit and they're.
Speaker A:They're with each other.
Speaker A:They'll drive each other to do dumb, like go down the dangerous part of the river in a wooden boat or, you know, go.
Speaker A:They try to help each other.
Speaker A:I just really like that relationship and how it plays out on screen between the two of them.
Speaker A:And that's the one place where I think Brad Pitt does shine because you can see that he's hiding stuff from his brother because he doesn't want to damage that relationship.
Speaker A:And that's what he lives for is those moments where he's out fishing with his brother and his dad or one or the other.
Speaker A:And like, spending that time.
Speaker A:And I really appreciate that.
Speaker A:That that is the focus of the movie and there's a lot of things going on, but those moments are the ones that really hit home for me is, like, those togetherness between those two and how they move through the story in that way.
Speaker B:I'd agree with that.
Speaker B:But where I struggled is, like, at the end with the.
Speaker B:When they really pull in the gambling scene.
Speaker B:Like, even the drunkardness, like, the way Brad Pitt portrayed it, just never felt like it was, like, truly a problem.
Speaker B:Like, I just didn't see enough of how it debilitated him and making poor decisions.
Speaker B:Even when they were in that, like, sketchy club at the end or whatever it was, he goes to the table and they, like, kind of push him away.
Speaker B:And you're like.
Speaker B:And then he's like, ah, it's fine.
Speaker B:Like, you're like, bro.
Speaker B:Like, are you, like, not all there in the head?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:And then he's like, I'm gonna go back right now.
Speaker B:He's smiling about it.
Speaker B:And I know that's his demeanor.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I don't know, I felt like I needed a little bit more, like, emotional depth from him to understand the gravity of the situation, maybe a little bit more.
Speaker B:But I think it was just more abrupt.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, okay, I know this isn't going to end well, but it's ending right now.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:I wanted more of what that was.
Speaker B:And I. I think to your point, I liked how his brother was starting the piece and discover that together.
Speaker B:I just felt like the way it happened at the end was a little more abrupt than I was prepared for.
Speaker B:Granted.
Speaker B:I mean, this is a long movie, so, like, things.
Speaker B:I'm glad it ended, but I think they could have woven a few of those things more together and cohesively.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I do think that they could have had at least one scene with Brad Pitt's character, like, by himself, having, like, a down moment where he's not.
Speaker A:Because it's obvious he puts on a show whenever he's in front of people.
Speaker A:Like, he has that face and that wall.
Speaker A:Even.
Speaker A:Even his family.
Speaker A:I think the closest he gets to that when that comes down is when he's fishing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Is like, he doesn't.
Speaker A:There's nothing else he's thinking about.
Speaker A:But, like, the.
Speaker A:I do agree that it would be.
Speaker A:I think it would have been helpful in the movie.
Speaker A:Now in the book, you don't get it.
Speaker A:And I think that's where the mistake was made again is they.
Speaker A:They leaned heavily into the narrator part of the book.
Speaker A:And we're like, well, we're going to show it all from Craig Schaefer's characters perspective, if you will.
Speaker A:Because that's what the book does.
Speaker A:It's more or less written in the.
Speaker A:It's just a first person accounting of this from that character.
Speaker A:So leaning into that part of it in the movie, I think is actually a mistake.
Speaker A:I think they should have shown to your point, Matson, some things with that, with Brad Pitt saying, you know, showing that when he's alone, maybe he's stressed out or he's struggling or he's having that internal battle with those vices that he has because we don't get to see that.
Speaker A:So we don't understand outside of that one scene how deep and big in trouble he actually is.
Speaker A:And then you have to really quickly get to that point and you're like, oh, he's gonna not show up to the fishing the next morning, right?
Speaker A:And then they juke you on that deal and they have the great day fishing.
Speaker A:And then it's later that he dies.
Speaker A:But it's like if they could have shown that, I think it would have carried more weight and seriousness going into that final scene.
Speaker A:And all we need is one.
Speaker A:I think just one scene showing him.
Speaker A:And I think they try to do it on the one fishing trip with the.
Speaker A:The future brother in law, like where he goes off on his own and then he's kind of like pensive and a couple.
Speaker A:But it doesn't do it.
Speaker A:It's not heavy enough.
Speaker A:There's not enough weight to it to really carry through the rest of it.
Speaker A:And I think I'm kind of skewed because I did read the book and so I, I caught.
Speaker A:There are pieces from the main character where he catches.
Speaker A:He picks up on the issues that his brother has that hot.
Speaker A:That he hides long before we get to this point and he starts making.
Speaker A:So I piece those things together because I have more information.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You brought up a part of this movie that I'm like.
Speaker B:They could have omitted, but it was kind of funny was that whole the.
Speaker B:The brother scene with the brother in law and that whole like.
Speaker B:I get part of what they were trying to do.
Speaker B:I was like, man, this didn't need to go on as long as it did.
Speaker B:Like that's a part I could have.
Speaker B:I could have chopped most of that out.
Speaker A:The sunburn.
Speaker A:So funny though.
Speaker B:I know, but like, I don't.
Speaker B:Like I didn't.
Speaker B:I. I would have taken more of Paul.
Speaker B:Like, show me some More of that and I would have been here for it.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:To me, it was a distraction that didn't really play to the overall ending of what they were really trying to get at, which is these two brothers.
Speaker B:I just didn't really care for it.
Speaker A:Sure get that.
Speaker A:What about you, Alex?
Speaker A:You gotta be something else brewing in that brain of yours.
Speaker C:Oh, something else brewing.
Speaker C:The brain.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:I don't have many problems with the movie, but I think it's probably because I didn't read the book.
Speaker C:I don't have anything to compare it to.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:And so I was watching this and it Just the feeling I got from it when everything just tied together so well.
Speaker C:So you have, you know, this.
Speaker C:You know, the.
Speaker C:The idea of this nice little Montana family, church going.
Speaker C:All that good stuff.
Speaker C:And, you know, you think about the.
Speaker C:It took a kind of the.
Speaker C:The right spin on everything, Right.
Speaker C:So you have like a.
Speaker C:A church family.
Speaker C:That is a family goes to church.
Speaker C:There's nothing else.
Speaker C:No ulterior motive there or anything like that.
Speaker C:Then you have the.
Speaker C:The homeschooling part, Right.
Speaker C:Where they didn't go to a school.
Speaker C:All he learned was how to read and write from his dad, essentially, growing up.
Speaker C:And it spun it into.
Speaker C:Then once that was done, they get to go hang out and be brothers.
Speaker C:And so you don't have the ulterior motive or the bad part of that either.
Speaker C:And so throughout this whole thing, it was just super fun to watch.
Speaker C:And then you get the idea that, you know, dad is the disciplinarian, Right.
Speaker C:When they go down the boat and the river and everything like that, and you get the feeling like, okay, maybe we're gonna see Dad's True Colors.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But no, you fast forward near the end and Dad's still going out fishing with them.
Speaker C:But he's not.
Speaker C:He's not taking joy in fishing so much anymore, more as just watching them fish and enjoy the, you know, hit what his life has been type of a thing, and enjoy the things that he's taught him.
Speaker C:And so everywhere where this movie could have taken, or the book, really, whatever, the story could have taken a turn, that would make it less enjoyable, less wholesome.
Speaker C:It didn't.
Speaker C:It went ahead and even in some cases, pulled out of one word, it's like, oh, that's.
Speaker C:That's cool that they did there, that they had that in there.
Speaker C:And so throughout the whole entire movie, I just enjoyed it.
Speaker C:And even down to, you know, when we start to see Paul unravel, like there's a little.
Speaker C:Little hint That I. I don't know if it was.
Speaker C:Can't remember exactly where it happened, but it was when he makes up the story about the president and it's that, you know, you can tell from there that Paul really is a pleaser, right at his core, he's going to be a people pleaser.
Speaker C:So he will tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear, regardless of what it is.
Speaker C:And so, you know, he's got to.
Speaker C:He's got to compete with his big brother type of a story thing.
Speaker C:And then we get to the point where he can't think of a story.
Speaker C:And he gets to that point where now all of a sudden the gu.
Speaker C:Who's the.
Speaker C:You know, you go anywhere in this area, Montana, it's the newspaper fisherman.
Speaker C:And, you know, it's, oh, you're the newspaper fisherman's brother or this or that.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden we kind of see him lose that charisma just for an instance.
Speaker C:And like, that's the.
Speaker C:That's the true.
Speaker C:Tell that, oh, there's some more going on here because all of a sudden he's.
Speaker C:He's off his game.
Speaker C:Can't think of a story, you know, or he's told his last story, he's got no more left.
Speaker C:So I just.
Speaker C:It was a hidden gem for me.
Speaker C:I just sat there and I was.
Speaker C:I didn't have any problem with pacing.
Speaker C:I wasn't treat.
Speaker C:The entire, you know, four and a half hours or whatever.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:I mean, the other part I don't care for is the fishing stuff.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, see, I don't.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't care for fishing.
Speaker B:Deep sea fishing, sure.
Speaker B:But I thought of JJ Like, I'm sure you.
Speaker B:It resonated in your soul.
Speaker B:Do you have.
Speaker B:You fly fish, Jay?
Speaker A:You know, I've tried, and I don't have that skill set.
Speaker A:Yeah, I can't.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:You know, that's another thing that I love because I love to fish.
Speaker A:And I wish I could fly fish.
Speaker A:That's like, I've tried.
Speaker A:I've never been able to get it.
Speaker A:And it's probably because I've never actually.
Speaker A:When I tried to learn, I was very young and so I'd never really fully committed to it.
Speaker A:I was like, this is just weird.
Speaker A:I don't get the.
Speaker A:The mechanics.
Speaker A:I think now I could probably figure it out.
Speaker A:But I love the way that they use fishing, too, to show the different personalities of these two guys.
Speaker A:Because, like, you have, like, he.
Speaker A:He's Very adamant about the fact that his dad.
Speaker A:Their dad taught him to the metronome.
Speaker A:Like, this is the.
Speaker A:The key to fly fishing is that timing.
Speaker A:And then the first time they go as adults, you get to see Brad Pitt's character.
Speaker A:That's like, he doesn't follow that he's made up his own rules and he's gone.
Speaker A:So like, you see that he lives that way his whole life.
Speaker A:Like, he does his own thing, makes up his own rules, finds way to do things the way he wants to do them regardless of anything else.
Speaker A:And then you have his brother who's.
Speaker A:Who follows the rules, right.
Speaker A:Like, he's like, I'm gonna fish this way.
Speaker A:And he still catches fish it.
Speaker A:And you know his dad, like, it's.
Speaker A:And I love the end too, where he tell.
Speaker A:His dad, tells Brad Pitt.
Speaker A:He's like, you are a fine fisherman.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, and it's not that his brother's not.
Speaker A:It's just like that's something that his dad would never do.
Speaker A:Something that his brother would never do.
Speaker A:And so you get to see that stark difference between Brad Pitt and the rest of the family and how he's gone off on his own.
Speaker A:And it's been.
Speaker A:It's led to his downfall ultimately.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it also created some ridiculously beautiful moments and some things that make him well known across the state.
Speaker A:You know, all these different things.
Speaker A:So it's just an interesting.
Speaker A:Like, I love that part how they use the fishing so subtly to show really quick how the difference between these two brothers and even the dad and.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just.
Speaker A:But I love the fishing mates.
Speaker B:Like, I get what it showed too, but I just.
Speaker B:I don't like.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:No, I.
Speaker A:It's just nice.
Speaker B:Did it enough times like you're.
Speaker B:You beat the point home like four times.
Speaker B:Like I get it.
Speaker B:Like I. I can see the differences in.
Speaker B:And how they fish.
Speaker B:And I did the fishing scene.
Speaker B:I did like they definitely needed one at the beginning that the metronome and set the stage.
Speaker B:Like I get all that.
Speaker B:And then showing when Norman comes back and they go fishing and he sees his brother and the shadow casting as his dad calls and how different it is.
Speaker B:Like those two.
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:I do they need to be.
Speaker B:As long as they were.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:But I don't think I have a problem with those.
Speaker B:So it just goes back to that.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The trip with the.
Speaker B:The brother.
Speaker B:With the brother in law.
Speaker B:Just like that whole thing.
Speaker B:Like, maybe not, but yeah, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I've never resonated with fishing, don't have the patience for it.
Speaker B:And I don't even understand, like, fly fishing.
Speaker B:What's.
Speaker B:It's a much more active type of fishing, as I assume.
Speaker B:Why do people pick fly fishing over normal fishing or vice versa?
Speaker C:Because they're fishing snobs.
Speaker A:The real reason is, like, your location.
Speaker A:So because they're fishing on a river, fly fishing tends to be more effective for a couple of reasons.
Speaker A:One, there's a ton of bugs.
Speaker A:And two, if, like, if you do lower fishing on a river, it can be, especially a shallow river like that with rocks and stuff, you're gonna get hung up every time you cast, and so it's pointless.
Speaker A:But with a fly fishing, they sit on the top.
Speaker A:Once they hit the water, they sit up there like a bug and like that.
Speaker A:Like, that's what the fish jump out.
Speaker A:And every time you hear, like, yeah, when you hear a fish jump in the water, you're like, hey, was that a fish?
Speaker A:They're snagging a bug somewhere.
Speaker A:Like, that's just how that works.
Speaker A:So it's really location and, like, how you're fishing.
Speaker A:And then there is a certain.
Speaker A:Again, to your point, like, you talked about the patience with it.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:So fishing for me most of the time is I cast a line in, I have my little goddamn floater on there, or I'm fishing the bottom, so it sits at the bottom, and I put the.
Speaker A:My fishing pole in my little lawn chair holder, and I sit there and I drink a beer while I watch my pole.
Speaker A:And the instant it starts to bounce or takes a yank, I pull that out, set the hook, and reel my fish in.
Speaker A:That's a lot of patient fishing, right?
Speaker A:Like, you have to be willing to just sit there and do nothing.
Speaker B:I think I could.
Speaker B:Like, if I was raised, fly fishing would be the fishing I would do because it's active.
Speaker B:Like, you got to be involved.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker A:Well, you have to think.
Speaker A:Like, you can't just flip the thing.
Speaker A:Like, you have to.
Speaker A:It's like they.
Speaker A:They show in that scene.
Speaker A:What are they biting on, right?
Speaker A:Like, you have to pick the right bug.
Speaker A:You have to move into the right areas.
Speaker A:Like, that's why he's always looking at the shoreline.
Speaker A:Or you got to know how the fish move, like, how they swim, how they track, how they.
Speaker A:They feed.
Speaker A:And so there's a lot more to fly fishing.
Speaker A:There's a lot more strategy to it, a lot more thought process.
Speaker A:And like you said, it's very active.
Speaker A:Whereas catching dumbass trout in a lake I just put that in the water and let them do.
Speaker A:Let it do the work.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it's like.
Speaker A:Or you hook it to a boat and troll the out of it, and all you're doing is driving.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Deep sea, you just troll.
Speaker B:That's something.
Speaker B:But then it gets exciting.
Speaker B:Once you got a big marlin on the line and they got flexes muscles, but.
Speaker B:Or you don't catch anything.
Speaker B:I like, I'll never forget when I first met Tay.
Speaker B:We went to Hawaii and we knew this local and he took us out on the boat and we were just dragging line and just for whatever reason, like four hours of just nothing, Just straight nothing.
Speaker B:I was like, this is.
Speaker B:I'm just baking in this boat.
Speaker B:Horrible experience.
Speaker B:Got a little, like, seasick too.
Speaker B:I was like, yep, this is why I don't fish.
Speaker B:But the opposite of that.
Speaker B:My best fishing experience was deep sea fishing on a bigger boat, like out in the.
Speaker B:It was up in Boston off the harbor.
Speaker B:Like, we went off of that and made some really good fish.
Speaker B:We caught it, cooked it.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker B:But yeah, I just like, ah, yeah.
Speaker A:I love fishing, but I also have no problem just sitting there like.
Speaker A:And not.
Speaker A:I don't even care.
Speaker A:Most time when I go fishing, I'm so happy when I catch fish.
Speaker A:If I don't catch fish, I don't care.
Speaker B:That's not me.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker B:You want to go catch some fish?
Speaker B:Go up to Alaska during salmon season.
Speaker B:You don't even have to.
Speaker B:You just.
Speaker B:You can just reach in and scoop.
Speaker B:There's that fattest sea lions I've ever seen.
Speaker B:Like, literally crazy.
Speaker B:They don't.
Speaker B:They don't do anything.
Speaker B:They're like, I don't even have to move.
Speaker B:They'll just come to me.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:It was the phrase fish.
Speaker B:Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker B:Like, you just point, like, all right, I'll just kill like 40 of them right there.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Crazy.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Can't wait.
Speaker A:I love to fish.
Speaker A:I haven't fished that.
Speaker B:That I would go do again because it was like, you're gonna catch delicious fish.
Speaker B:Like, I like food.
Speaker B:I like salmon.
Speaker B:I'll do that again.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:I love fishing up where you're at too.
Speaker A:We went out on the Puget, like, caught those freaking Lynn cut lingcod.
Speaker A:That was fun.
Speaker A:We had a good time.
Speaker A:Those fish were ugly.
Speaker A:Big old ugly.
Speaker A:But boy, they were fun to catch.
Speaker A:And apparently they're good.
Speaker A:I don't eat fish, but my fish.
Speaker B:Nope, you won't eat.
Speaker B:You Won't eat salmon.
Speaker A:No, it's gross.
Speaker A:I hate fish.
Speaker B:It's gross.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't like al.
Speaker B:Yeah back.
Speaker B:Alex.
Speaker B:Do you not.
Speaker B:I never know.
Speaker C:I. I could eat fish every single meal for the rest of my life.
Speaker C:It'd be gross.
Speaker B:Salmon is delicious.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're missing out there.
Speaker C:You're wrong on this one.
Speaker A:It's so gross.
Speaker A:It's oily.
Speaker A:Tastes gross.
Speaker A:I don't like.
Speaker B:When's the last time you had, like, Alaskan king salmon?
Speaker B:Like, have you actually.
Speaker B:Have you ever even had it?
Speaker A:Dude, I've had.
Speaker A:Fresh out of the water an hour ago, Alaskan king salmon.
Speaker A:Like, I've.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:What's wrong with you?
Speaker A:I don't like fish.
Speaker A:I don't like fish.
Speaker A:I don't like the smell of it.
Speaker C:Seafood or just fish.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:Not particularly.
Speaker A:So I can eat crab legs if they're, like, bathed in butter.
Speaker A:Like, and when I say bathed, I mean, like, I go to the steak and lobster.
Speaker A:Like, I'll go to steak and crab legs, and I got a bowl of butter and I break my crab legs, and I take my chunks of crab meat too much and I set it in there, and then I eat some steak while it soaks up all the butter, and then I eat the crab legs.
Speaker B:Dude, I cannot believe you don't like fresh salmon.
Speaker B:Like, I just salivate thinking of that.
Speaker A:Oh, nope.
Speaker B:Salmon is.
Speaker B:You barely have to season that thing.
Speaker B:And it's just perfect.
Speaker B:You cook it just right.
Speaker B:I perfected my dad's eat.
Speaker B:You two, like, a minute and a half for each side.
Speaker B:That's the secret to get it to the.
Speaker B:Where you touch it with your fork and it just goes.
Speaker B:Drops off.
Speaker A:Oh, gross.
Speaker B:I gotta go.
Speaker B:I'm eating salmon tomorrow.
Speaker B:Alec.
Speaker C:I just bought a whole side from the grocery store that's on sale.
Speaker B:So, so good.
Speaker B:Or make, like, chipotle.
Speaker B:Chipotle salmon bites.
Speaker B:Little.
Speaker B:Like little.
Speaker B:Little Hawaiian style with a little coleslaw and.
Speaker B:And pineapple and a little spice to it.
Speaker B:I should send you the recipe, Alec.
Speaker B:It's delicious.
Speaker B:Easy to make.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker A:I don't like this.
Speaker A:You two getting long.
Speaker C:This is the one time you're wrong, jj.
Speaker A:I don't like this whole dynamic we got going on right now.
Speaker A:No, man, I don't like fish.
Speaker A:Never have.
Speaker A:I. I have never liked fish.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:And I don't know if it's because when I was a little kid, like, we were super poor when I was growing up, and so we had fish sticks, like, frozen fish sticks.
Speaker B:Was like, oh, I Don't like those.
Speaker A:That was the.
Speaker A:That I ate.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:And so it's like, I. I just don't like fish.
Speaker A:I mean, my mom doesn't like it either.
Speaker A:Like, the two of us.
Speaker A:Everybody else in my family loves fit.
Speaker A:In fact, we had a barbecue on Labor Day and I had hamburgers and hot dogs for me and my sister.
Speaker A:Everybody else ate lingcod that we caught in Seattle a month and a half or whatever, two months ago or whatever it was because we still had some from.
Speaker A:That was frozen from there.
Speaker A:And they love it.
Speaker A:They eat.
Speaker A:Like, Casey loves fish.
Speaker A:She loves sushi.
Speaker A:She loves all the seafood.
Speaker A:Not me, not this guy.
Speaker A:I can't even handle when she cooks it, dude.
Speaker A:Like, I smell it and just.
Speaker B:I'm like, ugh, I forgot.
Speaker B:Like, when you told me about sushi stuff, I thought Casey was the problem.
Speaker B:You're the problem.
Speaker A:No, it's me.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:No, Casey loves.
Speaker A:She'd eat sushi every day if I.
Speaker A:If I could handle it.
Speaker B:But I can't do a sushi joint and just tell you to off.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:And I'm okay, I'll go find a fat ass burger somewhere.
Speaker A:Like, I'll find some red meat.
Speaker A:No, she'd love it.
Speaker A:Here's the thing.
Speaker A:You take me to sushi, I'll find something to eat.
Speaker A:I'm sure they all have stuff, so I'll go fish.
Speaker B:I don't like fish.
Speaker B:That's just.
Speaker B:You're dead wrong.
Speaker A:We'll end it at that, you know, and then.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:I've solidified it.
Speaker A:The more I deal with fish longer, like.
Speaker A:Like, I remember watching Casey, we caught a bunch of.
Speaker A:Of rainbow trout and cutthroat trout up in strawberry.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker A:We kept two cutthroat trout because they were massive and they were fit within the guidelines.
Speaker A:But we had a bunch of rainbow trout, and she made them.
Speaker A:And then, like, watching her pull the pin bones like I was looking and like, she had a deworm, a couple of them.
Speaker A:And I'm like, see?
Speaker A:No, I'm out.
Speaker A:That's gross.
Speaker A:Like, any animal that just buy, like, naturally, an hour later you're cutting into it and cleaning it and you got to pull a worm out of it.
Speaker A:I'm out.
Speaker A:That's gross.
Speaker A:I'm out.
Speaker A:I don't like it.
Speaker A:So I just added to my dislike of fish.
Speaker B:But yeah, and there's a debate, my ongoing debate in my head, like, pizza, burger, Mexican sushi.
Speaker B:Like, dude, there's so many good Types of sushi I could just.
Speaker B:Man, it's hard.
Speaker B:I'm just like, there's so many different styles.
Speaker B:I can crush sushi.
Speaker B:The problem is it's damn expensive.
Speaker B:But we.
Speaker B:It's one of those things like I rarely, Jay, at this point go out and get a burger because I wish you won't be able to have one of my homemade burgers because just the way the time works out.
Speaker B:But I'm.
Speaker B:I make a burger as good as I think.
Speaker B:Any restaurant I go to now because it's the secret of preparation or like pizza is one of those things I'll go out and get because I barely eat gluten at home anymore because of tay.
Speaker B:But like sushi, I don't care what you're doing.
Speaker B:You could, you can't make homemade sushi.
Speaker B:Like you can get out of well placed restaurant.
Speaker B:Like that's one thing I'm big on that when I go out to eat, I'm like, I want something that I like.
Speaker B:I can't make almost as good I want if I'm gonna spend my money on it.
Speaker B:You're missing out, man, so much good sushi.
Speaker A:Hey, I tell Casey all the time I wish I liked fish.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker C:But yeah, I'm back in JJ's camp when it comes to sushi.
Speaker C:I don't do sushi.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:If I can't eat, if I can't eat other animals raw, why the would I eat a fish raw?
Speaker A:This doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker B:Alec, you wouldn't have like.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think of the, the sushi one that had.
Speaker B:There's a bunch of it have salmon on top.
Speaker B:You wouldn't eat one of those.
Speaker C:I don't touch sushi.
Speaker C:I got really, really sick from it once and I won't go back.
Speaker A:And they have worms.
Speaker B:I've eaten a lot of sushi.
Speaker B:But I mean I've gotten sick from other places like Taco Bell back in the day.
Speaker B:And I still ate it like.
Speaker B:But I don't really eat Taco Bell anymore.
Speaker B:Like never.
Speaker B:But I would bet like you live long enough, you get food poisoning from.
Speaker A:Yeah, anything stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I. Anyways.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker B:I digress.
Speaker B:I can't believe you don't like fish.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Don't like it.
Speaker A:Never have.
Speaker A:All right, let's rate this some.
Speaker A:We thought we got off topic.
Speaker A:Although it kind of fit the topic.
Speaker A:But anyway, I'm gonna give this movie a three and a half.
Speaker A:And I say that because I think it, I think it's a great movie.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I'll watch it pretty much anytime.
Speaker A:It's not even one of those heavy movies to me that I can't watch repetitively.
Speaker A:But I do really hate the voiceover.
Speaker A:Like the, the narration drives me nuts because there's so much.
Speaker A:And I think it's lazy when the, the content that they had in this book, if they had just been a little creative with, could have been an even better movie in my opinion, because you could have cut back a bunch of the narration that tells the story and let the story tell itself.
Speaker A:Now you run the risk of that being a very long movie, even long, because it's about two hours long.
Speaker A:You're probably looking at more like a two hour and 20 minute movie at that point if you're not having the narration tell a lot of the story.
Speaker A:So it's kind of a give and take.
Speaker A:But I would rather watch the emotional pieces of it and take it out of just one viewpoint.
Speaker A:So because of that, that's why I give it the three and a half.
Speaker A:It probably.
Speaker A:I probably could give it higher and feel okay about it.
Speaker A:But I do have enough issue with the voiceover and, and the fact that there's a lot of missing pieces that I think would have added value to the movie that I. I just can't give it any higher.
Speaker A:So three and a half for me, I will definitely watch this movie again because even though I'm giving it three and a half, I still like it and I still think it's.
Speaker A:I like it more than what the three and a half rating says because of the story of the movie.
Speaker A:I do think I'm a little biased because I have read the book.
Speaker A:So from my perspective, that adds some value because I know the subtle that they're not talking about in the movie or they don't show it.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think there certainly could have been a better version of this movie than even what we got, which is great.
Speaker A:Matson.
Speaker B:Well, that was a confusing rating from jj.
Speaker B:Let me just break it down for you people.
Speaker B:As a man of the people, this movie, look, it's a little long, but the storytelling and the compelling nature of the brothers and their development and their diverging and converging paths and how they were raised and how it ends up.
Speaker B:I think it's a good story.
Speaker B:Is it like the best Brad Pitt thing I've seen?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Would I rather, rather watch Legend of the Fall over this movie?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think.
Speaker B:Do we remember what I gave Legend of the Fall I can't even remember.
Speaker A:It was pretty high.
Speaker A:I gave it a five.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:You gave it a four and a half.
Speaker B:I think like a four and a. Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give this movie a three.
Speaker B:Like it's not a bad movie.
Speaker B:It's definitely not like for the storytelling alone, I think it's, it's worth a watch.
Speaker B:I just, I, it just wasn't Brad Pitt's finest performance.
Speaker B:I didn't connect as much as I want.
Speaker B:I want a little bit more.
Speaker B:Everything that I've said before, one little bit more screen time.
Speaker B:Want a little bit more of the downfall.
Speaker B:Like the, there's that one kind of long scene with the, the brother of Norman's soon to be wife in the future.
Speaker B:I just didn't care for it, just detracted from it.
Speaker B:I didn't resonate with the fishing, but the life lesson was there.
Speaker B:I understood why it was there.
Speaker B:But things just took a little bit longer in some areas than I would have liked.
Speaker B:But for people that are very story and character driven, it's a great movie.
Speaker B:It's a three.
Speaker B:It's not, it's a three.
Speaker B:It's a three.
Speaker B:It'S not a three.
Speaker B:That's supposed to be in a four and a half like JJ said.
Speaker B:So just, just let the record show like what I give is what it is.
Speaker A:Don't worry, I'll kick him in the shins when I'm up in Seattle next weekend.
Speaker A:Alec.
Speaker C:Since I don't have any predetermined bias, it's a four, I think, I think if you take Brad Pitt out, it is a five.
Speaker C:And that's nothing against Brad Pitt as an actor.
Speaker C:Just wrong character for him.
Speaker C:He did not fit in with the entire rest of the cast.
Speaker C:He's the, you know, outball.
Speaker C:And even though Paul's kind of, that kind of character doesn't fit Brad Pitt, Brad Pitt just does not fit in this movie.
Speaker C:And I, I, I don't know who else would could replace him, but I feel like you could probably put anybody in there because the story is really Norman's point of view and having, you know, pretty boy Brad Pitt in there kinda is jarring detracts from it.
Speaker C:And then not having him mesh so well with the cast just throws, throws me for the biggest loop.
Speaker C:But I will watch this again.
Speaker C:I've already watched it since, you know, between now and when I first watched it.
Speaker C:So it's, it's now added to the regulars and I enjoyed it.
Speaker C:It was great movie.
Speaker A:So yeah, four for me, Mission Accomplished.
Speaker A:I drove Madsen crazy and I shared a movie, new movie with Alec that he's added to the list.
Speaker A:Speaking of Alec, tell everybody where they can find us, my friend.
Speaker C:Happy to.
Speaker C:Like JJ said, this is week four.
Speaker C:Yeah, four of Brad Pitt September.
Speaker C:Still mad that that doesn't have the same ring as Amy Adams.
Speaker C:So I guess I'm gonna be mad very long time.
Speaker C:Like JJ said, best place to find us is on Patreon.
Speaker C:You can get our content on YouTube where you see our smiling faces or grouchy faces or just plain bored faces if you ever look at Matt's window.
Speaker C:But Patreon's the best place to get involved with content.
Speaker C:We have our votes up there for movies and for monthly topics.
Speaker C:I think we just recently closed out the topics for October, which is gonna be John Cusack.
Speaker C:Little spoiler alert there.
Speaker C:John Cusack movies.
Speaker C:But on the Patreon as well, behind a little bit of paywall is close to now 600 episodes or extra bonus videos of content that range from bloopers and outtakes all the way up to full length videos and episodes of movies nobody should ever watch.
Speaker C:But the voting process to get involved with the content that we create is absolutely free.
Speaker C:So just go over to Patreon at what's our verte reviews?
Speaker A:Put in your vote.
Speaker C:It means a lot to us to get our movies that we select picked.
Speaker C:It's major bragging rights.
Speaker C:I only had one this month and I'm still pissed.
Speaker C:But with that, I'll kick it back to the Wazir of wap The Colossus of Clout.
Speaker C:A jj.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:I've been on a streak lately.
Speaker C:You really have?
Speaker A:Yeah, I have been.
Speaker A:I don't remember.
Speaker A:I was trying to think of when the last time it was that I only had like one movie picked or nobody picked.
Speaker A:I remember being pissed about it, but been a while.
Speaker B:What I picked for these movies.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Ocean's Thirteen and then next week's movie.
Speaker B:All right, Alec.
Speaker B:I did remember.
Speaker B:I just wanted to hear you say it.
Speaker A:Oh, hey, what's that, Alec?
Speaker B:World's smallest violin.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because you pick weird to with Matson every single time.
Speaker C:Sometimes it works.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker B:All right, well, I think our topic next month.
Speaker B:I probably don't even have a pick because I threw a dart at a board.
Speaker B:I knew nothing about John Cusack at all.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't think I got one.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker A:I'm pretty sure you got two.
Speaker B:Did I really?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think you just picked, like, two of his most popular movies.
Speaker A:We'll talk about it.
Speaker A:But I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker B:I didn't even know what I was.
Speaker B:Because there was only, like, one or two that was, like, outside.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't even know what I'm doing here.
Speaker B:Anyways, we'll get there.
Speaker A:Anyway, we'll get there.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So with that, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next baby cinematic.
